It’s tough work, deciding on how to start an interview with Peter Besson. The obvious angle would just be to drive straight in on his trailer for Oppenheimer—a trailer that made him the Best Trailer Editor in The World (“For, like, a day” he laughs)—or all of the other ones he’s cut that we’ve seen. But then there’s the angle about his own directorial success—his first film Accident was so mentally horrific, that not only did people storm out, but it also got him physically threatened after a screening (even I’ll admit to not speaking to him for a couple of weeks after seeing it), or his second film that won—and I’m not kidding here—63% of the film festivals it played at. Or do I not mention any of that and go straight to his first novel The Last Checkout—one that (surprise surprise) won 2018’s Writer’s Digest Grand Prize? Or maybe even yet, I simply describe him as a close friend, one that became tribe from the minute we shared a beer, and the only friend I have who I pen pal with—real writing back-and-forth, some real Burroughs + Ginsberg shit, getting into life and love and navigating our way through the entire thing—...
Like I said, tough.
But I’ll give it a go.
Brother, I miss you. When were we having beers in Berlin last? I honestly can’t remember.
I miss you. Been thinking about hanging out that afternoon myself. My girls too. They told me they were hungry that day. Well, it only made them stronger watching their father drink and converse.
Important life lessons right there. Okay, let's get into this. I mean, first things first, what was it like to get the call? I mean... this is the biggest film in the world. The biggest director in the world. And out of how many submissions, you get the call? Surreal. Unreal? Still hazy?
I never really got the call. It was an absolutely incredible and jarring experience, cutting on that trailer. First off, I work for Inside Job - we're Universal, so we only work on those films. But we have to compete with the rest of the trailer houses, and on that film, we were up against all the heavy hitters - everyone wanted to have a Nolan trailer. So me and a couple of colleagues here get to work, each one cutting a trailer. We get about 40 mins of footage from Nolan. That's all he gave us to cut with. Usually you get the whole feature and dailies. Not Nolan. About 40 minutes. That was it. And not even full scenes—just dialogue and some effects shots. So not much to work with. And then we were told to cut. And so we did. We cut a trailer. We sent it to Nolan. He liked them, then asked “What else can you do?” and back we went. Cut a whole new trailer. There really weren't any adjustments from the man himself, just the question: What else? So we cut more. sent it. Was liked and again asked “What else you got?” and that went on for weeks. Months maybe. So we cut and cut and were then asked to re-invent those forty minutes again. And again. The man seemed insatiable to see what could be spun from this. And all through this I thought about cutting a Terrence Malick trailer for it. Just music and images and some floated dialogue - make it kind of a visual poem, something that resonates on a feeling level. There was another meeting coming up with Nolan - I don't go to meetings with filmmakers, the executives go - and the executive in charge had another one coming up. In two days. I asked my producer if I could just cut something. I wanted to try that Malick thing. Great thing is, my producer has faith in what I do, so he said “Go for it; you have a couple of days.” A trailer takes about two weeks minimum to cut. But I knew the footage so well by then, and the music really inspired me, so I cut something together in those two days. My producer loved it. The executive didn't even have the chance to watch it before he showed it to Nolan - I give him credit for having that faith - and I was told that after that round of trailers was shown, Nolan apparently just said about mine: “That's the one” and that was that. I would finish a Nolan trailer. They changed maybe a couple of shots after that, but this was essentially baked in one go. It was an incredible feeling. Validation at the highest level. That I could play in that sandbox, that what I have been doing for years and years is actually taken seriously by industry heavyweights and seen by millions... that still feels incredible.
Any other good Nolan stories?
Yeah, a humbling one. You see, trailer editing involves one figuring out the structure of the piece, selecting music yourself and adding sound fx to orchestrate the piece into a cohesive experience of music/ dialogue/sound/visuals. That hopefully moves, surprises and - we all have experienced this too many times - is better than the actual film. On the Oppenheimer trailer, I selected a piece of music from a music library that I really loved and that was the inspiration for much of the piece itself. After my trailer was selected by Nolan, I was informed that he would do what he seems to do with most of his trailers; he wanted the music replaced. This time by the composer of the film, Ludwig Göransson. I was livid. And when I listened to what he composed, I was even more angry. I felt the music did not compare to my choice. But there was nothing I could do. As it turns out, though, after I settled down and my ego had its hissy fit, I listened to the piece again and again, and I felt embarrassed. I was astonished by the subtlety and beauty and power the composer achieved by scoring the trailer the way he did. It was a great lesson in humility for me. Turns out the man won a couple of Oscars for a reason.
So let’s back up. How did you get involved in cutting trailers?
I got into trailer editing because people kept paying for editing. Seriously. There was no plan. I went to film school - the cheap one in Texas - UNT - and afterwards wanted to become a filmmaker. So I was for a while. An independent filmmaker. Which means I was broke and lived with a friend of mine for a couple of years without paying rent. He pretended frequently that he couldn't eat the two pizzas he'd ordered just to not make me feel bad. I bummed around Dallas with some like-minded people, was a cameraman on infomercials, wrote a screenplay for cash (with my friend King - it was called Dope Case Pending - not making that up) and worked for a gaming company. Cut some promos for them - had to teach myself more editing skills - then I directed an opening video for a game (Nocturne), wrote another screenplay for another game (BloodRayne), directed a music video (Boys Lie Girls Steal - “Slow Roosevelt”) and all the while people asked me if I could cut something for them. So I did. And then others needed something, so I cut that. Then the USA network called and said they loved my short film Accident - and wanted to know if I could write a short film that could be turned into a series. So I wrote something in a week, they liked it, and then they financed my next short film Dream Hackers, which played on TV. Which led to a lady from Blockbuster asking me if I wanted to cut trailers at the Dallas headquarters. Blockbuster's production arm - DEJ - made crap movies, and they needed trailers. To put in front of other crap movies. And so I started there. Cutting trailers for garbage that always had Dean Cane or Lorenzo Lamas (Lameass I called him) in them, and they were always a knockoff of the 'real' movies. And after a couple of years of that, I got a call from Universal - a friend of mine was out there already - to see if I wouldn't want to come on out. I sent in my reel, and a few days later I was told to show up next Monday. Long story: I followed the money. And I really really love cutting when it works. It's like playing an instrument. When music and sound and dialogue come together and it just flows... magic.
This process, though - you must get to see films, like, years in advance?
The process depends on the movie. Right now I'm cutting on Wicked, and I have been for over a year. And the thing doesn't come out until Thanksgiving. And I have nothing really to show for it. Just cutting and cutting. And yes, I see movies months, years in advance. Sometimes we only get dailies - not even a feature cut - and we have to sift through that and find something to do with that, like building a puzzle with way too many pieces. And then we get feature after feature, and then metamorpihize, and things fall away and things are added, and you have to adjust and re-cut. Really, it all depends. But yes, I see films in all stages. Script. Pre-viz. Raw footage. Assembly. Rough cuts. Final cut.
What about the voiceover guy? In a world... and all of that. Do you have to cut around that? Or do they come in at the end?
VO is used super sparingly these days - it feels "sweaty" - Come yeh, Come all, Behold! - but sometimes it's still the easiest way to explain a concept because nobody really reads copy. Nobody. Sometimes it's part of a script. I don't get many of those anymore, but there can be a "copy run" - either written by a producer or, most likely, a copy writer - and then it's decided in the editing if that will be read by a narrator or if it'll be graphics. it can be helpful to structure a piece around and can do some heavy lifting.
How tall is your stack of NDAs?
Only one NDA - Nolan. usually it's enough to have watermarks on script and footage and log-in procedures.
Which other trailers have you done?
I've done a few trailers over the years - most notably the 90s Superbowl spot for Jurassic Park Fallen Kingdom, Superbowl spots for Minions and Secret Life of Pets, trailer for The Forever Purge, trailer for Michael Bay's Ambulance, The first Super Mario Trailer, then also some trailers on the side (sshhhh) like the one for Blue October’s Get Back Up and other independents—
Wait. What? Did you know I was a Blue October disciple/fanboy/crazy person in my twenties? Have we discussed that? Lots of eyeliner.
I had no idea you were a fanboy. I always loved them myself. I cut the trailer for the documentary, and Justin Furstenfeld loved it so much that he invited me to a concert he was giving in LA - he did an unplugged sort of thing with guitar - and he wanted to thank me personally. Nice guy really.
Okay, so switching gears to you as a director? When's your next film? I've never seen a movie clean up so many awards as True Beauty This Night. And rightfully so! (I think that private screening in LA was where we met.)
I don't know about my next film. Would love to, but nothing in the works at the moment. One day, one day...
When's the next book? Surely you're getting bids on turning The Last Checkout into a feature. Surely. It was incredible. Black Mirror before Black Mirror was Black Mirror. Think I blew through it in two days. It also won a bunch of awards, right?
Finishing up the second draft of my next book—gonna be a short one. Used a screenplay that was a quarterfinalist at the Nicholl Fellowship. Sort of like I did with The Last Checkout. I figure that's a stamp of approval of sorts. Will be another love story, sigh... and yes, I would really really love to make The Last Checkout into a feature, but nothing yet.
I’m shocked it isn’t already. Seriously. Okay, so are you impossible to watch a film with? Or, perhaps a better question, can you watch a film as a viewer? Or are you always bookmarking scenes to be included in the trailer?
I've always been a pain to watch a movie with. I've written so many screenplays (some Nicholl Fellowship quarter- and semi-finals), read so much about film theory and structure that I always look for the mechanics of a movie and I groan internally - sometimes externally - when everything just follows the expected path. And after having done short films myself, I endlessly complain about how things could have been done. I have a minor in photography and so I never tire of pointing out what works and what doesn't in a frame. All much to the delight of my fiancee - she just likes to be surprised and enjoy a movie. And after being a trailer editor for a while now, I do not really enjoy movies that much anymore. I follow a lot of movies from conception to final feature, and I miss out on the magic of having a movie be a complete thing. Something that's just presented as itself. I am scared by seeing that thing being born, wrestled with and shaped into a form that might not be the ideal expression of it. Kinda like watching an actual birth instead of just being handed the cleaned up baby. Different experiences. A bit of the wonder is gone. It does come back occasionally. When a movie comes along that I know nothing about, and that completely floors me with its innovation and unpredictability. Poor Things comes to mind. Absolutely loved it.
I agree. Poor Things (and anything Lanthimos does) was incredible. Anyway, you and all your awards and success being the greatest trailer editor in the world is annoying me, so I'll end this now. But does it breach any legalities for you to tell us any movies we need to be looking out for?
You running around the world and seeing all of it - and I mean every last corner of it - and your ability to do that and for being loved because you're doing it really annoys me... and upcoming movies? I have a limited view of what's on the horizon - I'm indentured to Universal - so I'm not the best person to ask.
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You can join the 47 million people who watched Peter's Oppenheimer trailer here.
You can buy his award-winning book The Last Checkout here.
And if you're really nice to me with lots of wine and compliments, I'll send you the password to watch his won-every-award film True Beauty This Night.
